France ban the Burka from today..

Muslim women who wear the niqab or burka in public in France face fines of 150 euros (£132) under a new law that has just come into force.

The country five-million-strong Muslim community is the biggest in western Europe, but fewer than 2,000 women are believed to wear a full face veil.

Many Muslim leaders have said they remain neutral on the issue, neither supporting the wearing of burkas nor the law restricting their use.

French police arrested 59 people on Saturday who turned up for a banned protest over the veil ban - one on their arrival in France from Britain.

The timing of the onset of the ban is all the more sensitive after France's ruling political party, President Nicolas Sarkozy's UMP, called a debate on the place of Islam in France.

Alex Rossi: 'Response expected to be fairly muted'

Last week police received a guide to help implement the ban. It tells them not to remove veils by force and also notes the ban does not apply inside private cars.

Muslim property dealer Rachid Nekkaz is urging women to keep wearing the veil if they want to.

He has called on supporters to go to Notre Dame cathedral in central Paris for a silent prayer during the day, and is also offering to help people pay the fines.

Mr Nekkaz said in a webcast he was putting a property worth around two million euros up for sale to help fund his campaign.

"I am calling on all free women who so wish, to wear the veil in the street and engage in civil disobedience," he said.

Totally disagree with that...

what they going to ban next...Jesus sandals

Seriously, were do you stop when it comes to banning clothing, the next thing will be banning hoddies, shades, hats etc etc..

They should go the full hog and ban religion, that would solve a lot more than what they're doing.

Banning religion would be a great one. Look at Irelands troubles rising up again, all down to religion.

As for the burqa , in 2 minds on it. 1, it is choice not compulsory to wear it, and given that you have to remove a motorbike helmet so your face is shown, seems right that those wearing similar face obscuring items, also should emove them.

2, As the Burqa is is a loose outer covering, I can see the point on wanting to have it banned. There are those who dress as women to commit terroist attacks.

As you said TW, what next ban hoodies, backpacks etc? Just where can you draw the line on erradicating a plausible terroist attack hidden in clothing or bags etc.

I can see the human rights court getting many cases about this banning.

Gris Gris wrote:

As for the burqa , in 2 minds on it. 1, it is choice not compulsory to wear it

Not always true, there are those who are forced to wear it, so there is no choice.

But i do agree with the ban based on security, as there are those who have used it as a disguise to commit terrorist acts. Not saying all those who do wear one are terrorist or aspire to be one, or even support terrorist activities.

I can understand why people are against it being band, but those people have to understand and appreciate why the ban was brought in. Because of those who abuse it's use as a method to commit murder undetected until it's too late. Not saying it will stop suicide bombers, but it may make it a little harder for them.

Maybe if there was a compromise? If they accepted that any Burka (or other identity hiding apparel) should be removed on request given genuine and reasonable safety or security concerns.

Again for me this raises the fact of why can't these people accept or at least compromise with the laws, or beliefs of the country they chose to live in (and yes i am aware that there are those who were born in non-Muslim countries), however these are not Muslim countries to start with. Muslim countries accept no tolerance of other religious beliefs in their countries. When was the last time the Iraq government paid to have a catholic church or Christian worshipping centre built in their country. And what would happen if there was a Christian protest on their streets, or if people took it on their own back to build a church in their towns.

Several good points raised . Notably the one of security in public places . This is only partly the reason of this law . The other aspect is that for the people who thought up the law it was more to do with the civil liberties and womans rights . As it was pointed out that these women were forced to wear it due to pressure from their husbands and community .
The Burka is a thing of the past as with lots of the islamic religion and has no place in todays world . Plus people in France are getting sick of the ever more present imposing of musulmans ways of life in schools and shops . Things have come to such a state that the racists here are not LePen and his National Party , Front National , but the arabs and musulmans themselves . They are more and more openly active in stirring up trouble . You accidently walk into some-one arab in the street and you could find yourself in court accused of agression and anti-racial behavior !
As TK said , try and build a christian church or something like this in one of the arab countries . Your feet will not touch the ground before you hit the far wall of a prison cell ! Yet here in Europe , due to racial integration , they are allowed to do anything and everything .
They chose to live in a country where the dominant religion is christianity . They should abide by the rules and laws of that country . If they do not like it then they should go back to where they came from. That way they can live as they want .

The main thing that gets my back up about "these people", be it muslims or any other culture living in our countries..... or countries that are not of the same culture as theirs. Is that they are very quick to demand THEIR rights, THEIR culture or THEIR ways, but they show no tolerence for ours. Our own government here in the UK is to blame for a big part of it IMO as they pussy foot around them, worried about upsetting minorities, although i don't think you can call them a minority anymore as there is a very large presence of these people. What annoys most of us i think is the fact that they are allowed to say what they like almost, demonstrate how they like. Yet if we do the same we are branded racist straight away, WHY? Do we not have the right to express views, protest or protect ourselves from the threat of terrorist attacks?

I personally believe the idea of banning the burka for security reasons is more acceptable than banning it because we believe it is oppressive. If their religion requires the wearing of such items then so be it, we shouldn't interfere. If a woman was to go to the middle east and dress as she would here it would not be tolerated. And that woman then stating it is her human right to dress that way, or that it is not against HER religion to dress in such a way would not be acceptable either.

It is a shame for a lot of muslims and other cultures who do find it ridiculous the way the U.K treats it's own people as they are also branded with the same "Extremeist" tag as the ones creating the trouble. When you hear stories on the news and such of local shops or work places being told they can't put the likes of Christmas decorations up because it may offend muslims. Yet when reporters interview local muslims from the area majority of them state it is madness, that they are not offended and that as a chrisitian country we should be allowed to celebrate our beliefs too. I don't have a problem with other religions, beliefs or cultures as such, and we should show tolerence, understanding and respect for them. But those other cultures need to show the same respect, understanding and tolerence for ours too.

And if these people can't do that then they should return to their own country where they can live by their own beliefs.

I agree with you TK. You made the point that I did not make and that there are quite a few of them who want to live their own lives and religion yet obeying the laws and rights of the country they are in . All the while accepting the differences of each others religion.
I also feel that people should be able to practise their religion if they so want, as long as it does not contravene the law or cause trouble.
What I can not stand are those religeous bigots and extremists of all kinds, Christian, Musulman, Jew or what ever who look to impose their way of thinking on people by brute force .
A lot of the problems with the new law in France comes from the men and NOT the women . Several have demonstrated but pushed by their menfolk to do so . The girls in the inner cites are treated as sluts because they want to live a normal , modern life . Going out with friends , to disco's , cinema, shopping etc , just as any normal french girl will do . There are tales of the girls being beaten in public by their own brothers to teach them a lesson. The brothers will go to the school or work place to "escort" the girl home and make sure that she does not go out afterwards . This does not stop their brothers going and fornicating left right and center . Nor causing trouble and vandalism in their area .

That is a problem for the so called minorities with their children. What they don't realise or have not thought about, is that if your children are born in a country that has a different culture or belief system then are going to be influenced and made curious by it. They are going to want to explore it just as their friends do who are not of the same culture as them. These people are trying their children up in a western world, but by Eastern ways.... it just ain't gonna work. And then they carry out these so called honour killings cos they brought shame on the family

It's those honour killings that need to be stopped, not just by the law but also by the sanctioning of their elders and heads of faith.

Law is law and religion is not. Do as you would in Rome, meaning you behave and follow the customs and speak the language of the place you are in.

Too true Gris Gris. The church leaders are just as much to blame as those doing the killings because they sanction them as being "right".
Whether they live in England or France or elsewhere then these are murders and should be treated as such . We live in laic countries and our laws are in place. Our customs , ways of life and laws should be accepted ,recognised and abided by all those coming to live . There is no place for their medieval ways.